Harassed by the Police tonight...

[FooserPaul]

Hello all...

I was detecting in the front of a school tonight.. a school I've been hunting for 2 years and have 20-25 pieces of silver from... I was about to call it and a white car stops and a man starts waving for me to come here... I took off my headphones and asked him what he wanted... He came around the car and was still motioning for me to come to him, but I stood where I was... then from the left... a town police car stops and 2 uniformed policeman walk over as he was approaching me...

They asked me what I was doing... As much as I wanted to say something smart... I calmly explain that I am metal detecting, and they asked for clarity... They asked me for my written permission from the school superintendent or the board of education to be digging up their property... I explain that I was not digging up their property and explain how a target is recovered... I told them I've been doing this for years at this school. There are not rules concerning metal detecting. They explain that they had the right to ensure that the grounds were safe for children and a child could possible trip and fall from what I am doing and they would be liable as would I if they did not doing something about it... They asked me to leave and obtain written permission to come back... I explained that I would leave and just stick to the city parks... and they told me that I would need written permission to detect there as well... I asked why I needed permission to do something there were no rules for... It was a no win no win no win spot to be in...They never asked for my name or to see ID... Just said I should move on and not come back without written permission...

Ignorance about detecting is frustrating....

I hope everyone had a better night than I...

Paul

 

[utahshovelhead]

Its a rock and a hard spot your in my friend. One knott head decides your doing something you'r not supposed to be doing and you now have all the burden to show that its ok to do what you have always done. Sad but true. Now if you ask permission from the school do it fast before the knott head coplains to them first and sways there view as none of them will understand how little you are doing untill you can convice them.

 

[Terra1959]

Sorry about your incident Paul
they happen downunder too unfortunately, but usually park council workers or rangers - not the cops.
It has happened to me and sometimes it does get to me but I know its best to be respectful and polite.
Even though many non school activities take place on their ovals .eg non school sporting club events
Schools can be classed as private property down here so technically permission is wise
Just maybe the guy in the white car was a teacher there ?

we can only do our best by not leaving any trace of where we have retrieved our targets and educating as many newcomers to our pastime to do the right thing as we can.

T59

 

[tmanly]

I had an office stop and watch me for about 30 minutes. As I was leaving, he asked if I was finding anything. (I never show my goods to anyone while I am out). I pulled out a double hand full of Can slaw and showed it to him. As I did I made the statement that I could not believe that they let children play where all this stuff was scattered around. He agreed . He asked if I would be willing to find something for him if he ever needed it. I said sure and gave him one of my cards. He will now wave when he drives by. So it may help to make you some card, take them to the police department and tell them that you would be willing to find evidence for free if they ever need it. Had out the cards to every officer you see. It pays to have friends in the right positions.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Always get thier names. Talk to your district councilman about thier abusing behavior and harrassment. Violating your rights. If the city doesnt have an ordinance against it, they can't stop you from doing it.

 

[DAN03USMC]

What a bummer. Don't let it get you down. HH

 

[Prep1957]

I only hunt schools when they are out during summer.I then ask the head of maintenance if I can hunt certain areas of school that would not bother him.depending on how good a spot it is a gift card for small amount will go a long way with your business card.I have one school that is new that sits right on top of 1880s fair ground I have pulled 3 1921D mercs plus a lot of silver out of that spot each year he gets cracker barrel gift card and a bears ball cap which is really tough for me cause I am a Packer Fan.The police really could of nailed you with that lesche digger,Knife,etc. called it a weapon.Imagine yourself in court as the lawyer showed that to a jury a garden trowel would be a better choice at some parks and schools.In the communist state of Illinois 1000 feet from the edge of school property is considered a safe zone you do not have to be on school property to get arrested be careful.

 

[Altamaha]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience Paul

This is why it is so important that we as metal detectorists set good examples by learning the do's, don'ts and tricks of the hobby; but even when we do everything right, we will still encounter these kind of people. In my 30 years of detecting I've found the following points to be very helpful!

- It's better to always get permission even for public property and explain the hobby to the owner (most importantly the recovery process) to put them at ease (even demonstrate if necessary)
- In many cases the above point has made the difference in my getting permission vs not
- Learn to recover targets neatly and leave no visible signs that you were there
- Don't carry/use big extraction tools (IE shovels, anything with long handles, etc), as this will surely draw attention and cause concern to owners/custodians/caretakers and the police
- When necessary to extract targets, cut very neat partial plugs and carry a cloth or something to put any removed dirt on/in so that it can be replaced without any residual dirt remaining outside of the hole.
- Aerate plugs (by punching holes in them) when replaced so that the grass doesn't turn brown as this will surely result in complaints/banning by owners
- Learn to use a screwdriver/probe to find/pop shallow coins/targets.
- If you use a knife wear a shirt (outside of you pants) so that you can carry the knife/sheath out of sight under it (don't carry it conspicuously uncovered or around in your hand)
- Carry a pouch and collect all trash that you recover. Removing trash from private/public property can be looked upon as a service which can put you in good stead with owners/custodians/caretakers (always mention this point when asking permission)
.
Frankly the recovery methods/practices used by some people who post videos on this forum are quite disturbing and will only result is our hobby getting a bad name and more areas being closed/off limits to all of us. The point about leaving no signs of having recovered a find has saved me several times in school yards. More than once while detecting on school grounds I've been approached by angry grounds keepers complaining that I was digging up the grounds and leaving holes. When I challenged them to find the holes and they could not, they just left without further complaint. I also know of many awesome detecting spots that are now off limits to detetorists because of uneducated/careless detectorists who fail to adhere to many of the points listed above.
.
To the moderators of this forum is there some way to post up front and maybe with the input of experienced members, a metal detectorists' code of ethics (or list of good practices) as a means of educating new people and longer term ones who simply don't seem to care about preserving our hobby?. Just a thought. Thanks!

 

[RiverJohn]

First of all I totally agree with Pepsi1957. I only hunt schools when school is out. Usually in the summer time, and then ONLY early on Sunday morning. I avoid all contact with anyone, especially any students. I don't think anyone except the groundskeeper, Principal, Superintendent, or the School Board can give you meaningful permission. I would really avoid any confrontation. Schools are not public property. If it were me I would quickly, as mentioned above, go to the school and explain what happened to the Principal. Show him/her some of the trash that you have removed. Explain how you fill your holes, and that you are mindful of everyone's safety. Apologize, if appropriate, for not getting written permission because you had no reason to think it was required. It was not willful misconduct on your part. It was a simple oversight based on your belief that hunting there was not a problem. And as mentioned above, I would NEVER take a Lache tool or any large knife, (or firearm), to any school grounds. Lastly, I would offer the Principal my services were anyone to lose something at a school event. Explain to him that you are a local, maybe a family man, and a guy of good character. Schools are very hypersensitive to any "strangers" in or around their grounds. Dispel that. Offer to give a demonstration of how metal detectors work. Be proactive. You might avoid signs in your local parks or misinformed local city laws. HH River John

 

[Bilko]

In England, the National Council for Metal Detecting is

 

[RacerX]

First, NEVER ask permission to hunt PUBLIC property. In short you are asking to be told no and drawing attention to your hobby. A currently perfectly legal hobby. If ever asked to leave, just do so. Rather you go back later is up to you. I usually do. I'm of the mind that - I pay taxes, it's my property too.

Second, you kinda brought this on yourself with a bad attitude. i.e......

I was about to call it and a white car stops and a man starts waving for me to come here... I took off my headphones and asked him what he wanted... He came around the car and was still motioning for me to come to him, but I stood where I was...

and......

They asked me what I was doing... As much as I wanted to say something smart...

Don't always assume the cops are out to get you or are on some power trip. Much of the time, they simply think they are doing their job (rather they are right or wrong another discussion). Attitude is EVERYTHING in these situations. It's not even your outward attitude or what you actually say. Your internal attitude is what changes your outcome.

I'll share a brief story with you. Once some friends and I were hunting an old park that had been demoed in a major US city. The park was fenced with no signs and we chose to enter. Nothing sneaky. Downtown, broad daylight. Someone called the Police and said we were planting a bomb. Cops rolled up with full lights and sirens and approached us with hands on firearms. In short we explained what we were doing, handed one of the cops a seated half dime (which he passed around to the others) to show them. We all had a good laugh about the bomb scare and they sent us back inside the fence to continue.

 

[jbow]

n/t

 

[jbow]

You can be sure that the police didn't do this on their own. They were called by the other person... the busybody. I know that there are no laws here stopping me from huntinig county or city parks and other public property however I did go to both the city and the county parks and rec depts and asked. I know both the directors and they said it was fine. The county asked me to not dig up the dirt infields on the baseball fields.

If I hunt local shools I do it either on Sunday or in the summer but there are only a couple I can get into anymore. They had to fence and lock them because the illegals were trashing any field they could get onto. They will go on to any field they can get on and play soccer every evening and it causes a lot of wear and tear... and the schools don't like it... now they are fenced and locked... but I know how to get into part of two and I have no trouble from it. I was asked what I was doing once and showed the guy. It turns out he is one of my customers but he is also the head of the GA chiefs of police association, or he was. So he was a no BS sort of guy. I showed what I was finding and how I was recovering and he saw no harm in it.

If you get jumped by a busybody you may as well leave ASAP and come back later... the police cannot make up laws nor can they enforce laws that do not exist, as much as some of them would like to.



Julien

 

[jbow]

or just carry a plastic utensil of some sort that will obviously do no damage and cannot be considered a weapon... or maybe a very small screwdriver. If they talk about holes ask them to show you one. I ususally can't find where i've recovered a target after I move on and they wont either.

Or you could just detect and not recover just to see if they also have a problem with that.

If you talk to your councilman or the schoolboard member who represents your district... go where they are and ask to demonstrate to them what you do and how... maybe you could arrange to meet them after hours at their home especially if you know them and remember that they are elected and they should take the time to talk to you and hear you out. Otherwise you will have a reason to campaign against them in the future. They are politicians and you can donate to them when they run or ask for a yard sign. If they know who you are... that is most of the battle.

The police aren't your enemy, some busybody is and if you cannot resolve it you can always annoy them by detecting but not digging... and make them look like the petty little people that they are.

Julien

 

[Barry NY]

I personally believe that if you "dig" into the Town's rules and regs for where you want to detect, as I have done in my Town, you will find that most all Town regs for public property (including schools) will have some sort of prohibition against disturbing the fauna and flora - animals and plant life. I mean, think about it, without these regulations one could theoretically kill the rabbits and remove the newly planted sod or landscaping. Most of the time you will not find any rules pertaining to metal detecting except usually for Town beach areas or State parks. So I agree with jbow - you can detect but not recover...Even doing a great job of extracting the target and cleaning up the spot would be considered against the law in these circumstances.

This is why our hobby is so dependent on securing permission to detect - whether private property or public property. And securing good properties to detect on is the most challenging part and the life blood of our hobby...

 

[BJ in Okla.]

I was detecting in the front of a school tonight..


This makes me think your were hunting at night, and someone call the Police on you....

I have never hunted at night for that very reason, I did not someone calling the police on me...

I know a hard headed old man, the the owner of the house told hard head to leave and that he was tired of running him off, hard head told him that he was getting tired of being run off and was not leaving.
The owner left, and came back with a couple of SWAT Cops, they put hard head and his friend down on the ground and told him if they ever had to come out for the owner, they were going to jail...

I was hunting a school, that use to be a fair grounds, a Cop pulled into the Parking lot and asked me in a nice way, what we were looking for, I told him the history and a friend came over and showed him a few coins.
We told him that anytime he wanted to hunt with us, to just stop, that some one always had a extra detector.
He thanked us and another Police car pulled up, and they had to leave on a call..

There are a lot of good ideas here..


What do you think of the picture ???
This is a nice park.
And now no one can hunt it,
and it had been hunted for years before.
HH...BJ

 

[Goes4ever]

I am glad I live in a small town and none of the schools are off limits here the cops go by wave and smile, no one gives you a second look when your detecting there or any of the parks.

I hate it when people call cops on people who are minding their own business not hurting a thing, especially when at a school or park. Some people just are not happy unless they make someones elses day miserable

 

[croakersmoker78]

I HAD THE SAME THING WITH A PARENT OF A KID AT THE PARK. HE SAID WHAT I AS DOING WAS NOT RIGHT AND MADE NO SENCE I TOLD HIM I HAD PERMISION BUT HE KEPT SAYING IT MAKES NO SENCE. I DONT KNOW I EXPAINED HOWI DID A PLUG AND FILL IT IN AND YOU CANT EVEN SEE WHERE I DUG BUT HE DIDNT CARE AND WENT BACK TO THE OTHER FEILD

 

[captn_se]

I just wanted to share with you a pic from a few years back. The groundskeepers of a very popular park in Los Angeles saw me and my buddies detecting there one morning, and they called the cops on us....the groundskeepers didn't even approach us beforehand to ask us not to make plugs...they just called the police. I think the groundskeepers were intimidated by the four of us, and did not want to get involved. When the police arrived, that's when they told us that they had to respond to the call because someone who works/upkeeps the parks didn't want us to be there. The cops were really cool about it. They told us that we could continue to detect, but we just couldn't dig holes, and that the groundskeeper told them that was the main reason they called the cops on us, because they somehow know that the plugs we make never totally heal, and kids/park patrons could twist/break an ankle if they stepped into one of our divots...LOL Well, that just about was as good as saying we couldn't detect there, since all we were looking for was older coins at 7+". As for scarring a park, you should have seen the thick track marks that sport utility vehicle made on the turf....those tracks would have been there for months. I'm the guy on the far left of the pic. A couple of my buddies returned back to that park a few months later (in the afternoon), and had no problems that time. So, I'm still keeping this park on my list; just not sure when I will return...it's not the kind of park you want to go at night, that's for sure!!. I've hunted parks and some schools in my area countless times, and have been only asked to leave three or four times. I've had some folks at the parks (one in particular I can remember called the cops on us 4 times now over the last couple of years...it's the same guy every time), but every time we saw him calling the cops on his cell phone explaining to them what we were doing, the cops have never showed up. Some folks just can't keep to themselves.....I wish they could just make better use of their time, and ignore us like we completely ignore them.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[pointer80]

Hi all, I guess I do not understand why you would want to waste your valuable time detecting and not recovering your target? There are alot of places that have rules about defacing property that is where the grey area is. Is cutting a plug defacing property? if done right I would say no but others might have different attitude. I've talked to the city and county in my area and it is perfectly legal to metal detect on city or county property. This include the strip between the sidewalk and the street in front of homes in town. That property is considered city property and is legal to hunt. I would not dare hunt that strip in front of someones house with out permission from the home owner. I had one home owner tell me that it was city property and not his and I told him that I would not feel right about just hunting it without his permission. He liked that and ended up letting me hunt his yard also. I think if you go to the city or township you will probably get good results. Just my 2cents. HH.