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Let's design the world's best beach detector!

lytle78

New member
About a month ago I posted a thread here about the new French developed Manta Pulse induction technology which First Texas has acquired. Several folks made thoughtful comments about it and seem generally pleased to hear that we can expect the new beach machine in the not so very very distant future from Fisher.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,2374832,2376995#msg-2376995

It occurred to me this morning that First Texas might like to hear OUR ideas about the ideal Beach detector - and hear them during the period in which they are working to turn Alexander Tartare's Manta prototype into a marketable beach detector which introduces truly new Technology. Engineers will design what they think is the best that can be done with the technology available – but marketing are the people who have to go out and sell the product in order to do that they need a really good idea as to what will actually sell. With that information they can tell engineering what they need and engineering can pick and choose from all the possibilities to give it to them. So right now we may have an opportunity to get a major manufacturer to actually tailor their product very directly to do the jobs that we need to be done.

So – given that we're talking about a pulse induction detector – one that can discriminate out iron – what would it take to make the thing perfect for your conditions, your beaches, your targets? What specific features in terms of its design performance user interface and mechanical package would it take to make you feel like you've got the worlds best beach detector?

Right now there are number of good to adequate machines out there – but all of them fall short in the opinion of many on this forum of the ideal. whether it's part of the mechanical package – battery arrangement, coil size, coil interchangeability, headphone, Rod - whatever.

Performance? Or today's machines deep enough or is more depth really need it? Is iron ID/elimination enough detection for salt water beach hunting? What about the controls?

Price - what would you pay for detector which met your needs perfectly - was as robust as the CZ 21 - had the depth of the Excalibur or better - could detect targets, even those undrt nails while frjecting nails, fishooks, etc. - and was sensitive to the tiniest gold jewelry?

Since I have contacted First Texas about the Manta previously – I'm in a position to make sure they see whatever we post here in terms of what we want them to build for us!

If you're up for it please post your ideas on this thread I for one will not criticize even the wackiest of them –
 
I'd be happy to see a waterproof discriminating machine that can match or beat the TDI pro for depth and beat the ATX on gold chains in saltwater environments. Definitely needs to be lighter than the ATX. Changeable coils with highest quality coil cables and bulletproof strain relief. light as possible but strong build and well balanced. Rechargeable battery. Selectable pulse delay down to 8us . Telescopic straight shaft with a rinse port. Price hmmm... if it was around CTX price + or - a little I'd be fine with that. I'd rather pay a little more for a machine that's build tough than be worried about breaking it. Thanks

John
 
Great start John, thanks for the thoughtful response. We'll see who else is willing to jump in with solid suggestions.

This way of gathering information to guide design is – I think – called crowdsourcing. Detector companies so far haven't use that approach that I have noticed – maybe we can get them started on a new path.
 
I second Sand Dog!! A waterproof PI machine like the TDI, has a low conductor discrimination selection, good on small targets (8us range), ruggedized, interchangeable coils, and a long battery life. Asking a lot of any machine, but would be a real winner on the beach.

Richard
San Diego
 
2.5 lbs cz waterproof with interchangeable headphones and coils. F19 recovery speed, three tones high for nickels. I have a cz6a and I believe it is the best beach detector, the only thing that would make it better is lighter, quicker and waterproof! I know that pi's are deeper but my beach has a hundred nails and a dozen chunks of iron for every diggable target!
 
Here is my off the wall want. I hunt mostly public swim beaches and grid the whole beach when I'm there but can't walk a straight line if my life depended on it. So the net result is I know I am missing swinging the coil over some areas and also hitting some spots twice, at least I hope only twice.

I want a built in GPS I can set my first path with, be it the shore line or the swimming rope or even as deep as I can go. And then when i turn around to go parallel with the base line, my head phone will lightly beep in the right ear or left ear telling me i need to correct myself either right or left. Back and forth from the base line with the program recognizing I have turned around and starting a new parallel path.

Same goes for land hunting.

Crazy?
 
rottonr said:
Here is my off the wall want. I hunt mostly public swim beaches and grid the whole beach when I'm there but can't walk a straight line if my life depended on it. So the net result is I know I am missing swinging the coil over some areas and also hitting some spots twice, at least I hope only twice.

I want a built in GPS I can set my first path with, be it the shore line or the swimming rope or even as deep as I can go. And then when i turn around to go parallel with the base line, my head phone will lightly beep in the right ear or left ear telling me i need to correct myself either right or left. Back and forth from the base line with the program recognizing I have turned around and starting a new parallel path.

Same goes for land hunting.

Crazy?

We old pilots call them VOR's.
 
doc holiday232 said:
rottonr said:
Here is my off the wall want. I hunt mostly public swim beaches and grid the whole beach when I'm there but can't walk a straight line if my life depended on it. So the net result is I know I am missing swinging the coil over some areas and also hitting some spots twice, at least I hope only twice.

I want a built in GPS I can set my first path with, be it the shore line or the swimming rope or even as deep as I can go. And then when i turn around to go parallel with the base line, my head phone will lightly beep in the right ear or left ear telling me i need to correct myself either right or left. Back and forth from the base line with the program recognizing I have turned around and starting a new parallel path.

Same goes for land hunting.

Crazy?

We old pilots call them VOR's.

I had to look that up. :) And yes, but of course with GPS i don't think stationary raidio signals needed.
 
rottonr said:
doc holiday232 said:
rottonr said:
Here is my off the wall want. I hunt mostly public swim beaches and grid the whole beach when I'm there but can't walk a straight line if my life depended on it. So the net result is I know I am missing swinging the coil over some areas and also hitting some spots twice, at least I hope only twice.

I want a built in GPS I can set my first path with, be it the shore line or the swimming rope or even as deep as I can go. And then when i turn around to go parallel with the base line, my head phone will lightly beep in the right ear or left ear telling me i need to correct myself either right or left. Back and forth from the base line with the program recognizing I have turned around and starting a new parallel path.

Same goes for land hunting.

Crazy?

We old pilots call them VOR's.

I had to look that up. :) And yes, but of course with GPS i don't think stationary raidio signals needed.


But of course,however, I want my signals Stationary--where would I end up with a Moving signal. LOL Good luck.
 
I'd like the opposite of sensitivity to small targets. I do not care for hunting small chains. Little shreds of aluminum are the most annoying junk targets. Small chains aren't worth the time. I would prefer a detector that is optimized to go very deep on coin and ring sized targets with less sensitivity to small, shallow trash.

The best beach hunter, in my opinion, would have 3 things.

1. Depth like the TDI pro - gets a nickel in the 16-18 inch range in air tests
2. Iron disc, and not just shallow iron. If it can disc deep iron, all the way down to the threshold of detection, that would be amazing.
3. Reduced sensitivity to small, shallow targets.

Do not care for weight (I swing a cz21 on the stock shaft), do not care for ergonomics. If there were a detector that could do the 3 things listed above, I would buy it right now.
 
Never Bbq'd a Scallop!

Good thoughts - keep them coming. For a PI machine, the pulse delay setting will fix yoir issue, The shorter the delay between pulses, the smallet the detectable target. A perfed beach detector would have a simple choice of pre-programmed setting combunations ehich let someobody just select - "rings and coins" and know that the detector was now maxed out for depth and set to stromgly report round objects.
 
The problem is rick that few people have the imagination or inspiration to come up with new ideas. An old question is... which is more important imagination or knowledge? This is a perfect example.
 
The knowledge to design better detecting systems is - at least potentially - present in several detector manufacturers' enginerring departments. One of the problems with bringing this knowledge to the users is that ALL of the current companies have a "triangular" decision structure. Management wants to know how they will get back the $$$ that the spend on R&D - Marketing wants to get products which they can sell in quantity and which will best the competitors products and engineering wants to develop ever more advanced technology.

The challange is for Marketing and Engineering to come to an agreement as to what a new machine will actually include in its design and performance.

Lost in all this sometimes is the guy with a job to be done. Whether it's someone hungry for those deep silver coins in an old park, the relic hunter wanting another 6" with ID for his deep site or better separation in trashy ground - an African miner wanting a more rugged and sensitive nugget finder or a beach hunter wanting more sensitivity to noce round rings and coins ---- every ome of these represents a "job to be done".

My challange to all of is in posting this thread was for us to articulate what features we could identify as necessary in order for our "job" on the beach. It's going OK so far...

Here's one thought. The seashore presents at least 4 distinct environments - dry beach, wet beach, wading, diving. Each of these puts different demands on the detector based on saltwater effects on detection, mechanical stresses on the device, environmental effects on the user interface such as noise, with a top of the line detector likely to cost $1500 or more, ot's not practical to have several. What about a detector which is modular - not only one that has different operating modes, but even different physical characteristics. Modular components, not only interchangable coils, headsets, etc, but perhaps power systems - trading operating time and perhaps depth for lightness and rapidity of dry sand coverage - or diving configurations with a completely different set-up?
 
Come on SC - think hard!

Seriously, I have no idea what Minelab is up to, but I doubt that they have reached the end of their talents. Likewise, Garrett might someday give is a lightweight successor to the Infinium.

What I do know is that Fisher has announced that they will be developing Pulse Induction detectors and are busily working out how they will look, operate and perform. Since the "low hanging fruit" for PI detectors is a beach machine with discrimination, I think it's safe to expect that that will be an early result.

Will any of our "whizz-bang" indeas/insights help them produce a more effective device? I don't know, but I do know that they are interested in what folks have to say.
 
Well since we're talking about a potential new beach machine built from the ground up a few things that come to mind

1. New technology. Real discriminating pulse induction with ability to be deeper than previous tech. Or an all new technology that's better all the way around than what's available now.
2. Build quality coils. A beach machine will take a lot of abuse from rough water, sand ,salt so it needs to be built tough. Highest quality strain relief,coil cables and stainless steel connectors that can take the abuse of salt water ,sand and heavy use.
3. Housing. Needs to be high quality impact and uv resistant with high quality stainless fasteners. Pistol grip with that special tough rubber material they use on high end fishing reels that stays grippy when wet.
4. Shaft. I prefer a telescopic straight shaft style setup with coil cable inside. This design suits beach hunters and divers best as its adjustable and keeps coil cable from getting scraped or hit by debris. This needs to be able to create the least amount of drag in water and easy to clean the sand/grit/salt out of inside tube and cam locks. Maybe a rinse port could be built into it.
5. Battery. I think keeping the battery separate from main electronics area "like excal" is the best idea incase of a water leak or battery leak. And it could be at back of shaft for balance "like mx sport.

John
 
Perhaps Fisher can hold a contest of some sort... If they are really interested. People that contribute ideas that are put on the final product can be used as testers. Too bad garret didn't do it with the atx. The shaft would have been tossed directly into the garbage
 
SC,

Since Fisher hasn't introduced a new beach machine since last century, they might not have a short list of tech testers - who knows. I do know that I will copy the ideas to them with attribution as to who came up with them, simce this whole "crowd sourcing" thing is a result of what one of them said to me a while back when I asled about the Manta.

Heck - I live in AZ - I'm nuts to be "cranked" about a new beach detector, but I teally think that this initiative could produce som],ething truly new - plus beach detecting offers WAY Better scenery than nugget hunting!!
 
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