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Misconception about public perceptions :twodetecting:

R

Ray-Mo.

Active member
I still hear folks say it does not matter what digger you carry and use in public areas as long as you use a clean proper recovery method.I believe this mindset is very sad and will only bring harm to our great hobby.
Common sense along with quite extensive personal experience tells me that carrying and using a long handled relic type shovel is asking for trouble for the user and the rest of us detectorist.
As a matter of fact I refuse to hunt in public areas anymore with folks who use long handled "mini-shovels" because of all the negative publicity they bring.
I think it would make for great discussion here on our forum,Please jump in you all.......
 
I heartily agree with you in another subject about diggers I posted this in response to questions about what kind of digger to use.

I have not used the Raptor but do use the Predator Model 85, I too have arthritis and the Model 85 makes it much easier in digging a plug than any other digger I have used. When my wife started detecting I got her one as well. I do have a Predator Model 58 Dixie shovel that I use for field digging, it has a longer handle and I can use it for help in getting back up, I carry a walking stick to help me other times, my arthritic hip needs a bit of help sometimes. I have tried out the Dixie shovel in my yard and I can dig the same size plug and just as neat as with a hand digger but I do not use it in public places because of the perception of it. You would still need a hand digger even with the shovel for the "fine tuning" digging to retreive your targets most of the time.

Rightly or wrongly the public will judge us by THEIR perceptions and not by any other standard. So I do not use it in public places only in private circumstance such as bean fields etc.
 
I 110% agree with you on that Ray. There's a place here in town that has been pounded for the last two months. It is torn down homes and the lots have been cleared and are for sale. The person in charge of the property gave permission to hunt it to many. I was flat ashamed and embarrassed at what I saw when I and some friends ventured down that way a couple of weeks ago to hunt it. Some people are just plain and simple idiots. More unfilled shovel holes than you can imagine, 100's, looked like hogs had been rooting really. I was ashamed as I have ever been and really upset that some take what I call an honor to be able to do in certain places and just plain screw it up. Sad really sad.
 
There is no question that you are correct sir. I use the smallest digger I can for the occasion. If you're hunting grass and find you need a bigger digger, the conditions are not good for grass/park hunting. Sometimes it's just a probe or screwdriver. It is fun to use a big shovel in the appropriate areas, but even in areas that may not see another person for a 100 years... Fill Your Holes. If it's too much work for you, or it hurts, and it hurts me to say this, find another hobby.

Hitting places very early when few are about is a good way around this if you must use a shovel, but only if your reclamation process is perfect, or as close to perfect as possible.
 
The people who say "size doesn't matter" are idiots. Public perception and the fear of the unknown has cost us all......dearly.
 
Ray,

Always good to read your posts.

Up until last year I had always used a hand digger in parks. Mainly a Lesche, although I had tried a Gator Digger for a bit. Also used a brass probe.

Then I ran into a buddy who was using one of the long handled shovels that you mention. I think it was a Ground Shark. He was cutting deep, clean plugs that went back into the ground seamlessly, which countered my misconception that these type of shovels tear up the turf. I have since added a long handled shovel to my tool set, more of a flat blade, and it cuts like a knife into the turf. You can cut a 3-sided plug down to 6" or so in seconds that flips right out. It's much more like cutting out the plug, as opposed to using a hand digger & sawing your way through the turf. For me, my plugs are much cleaner plus the digging takes much less of a toll on my hands.

I can also tell you that I have never had anyone come up to me and criticize for using my long handled shovel in the parks.

Just my take, you might give one a try some time.

Bill
 
I have two of the great relic shovels like the one pictured and like them very much.I use them in private sites all the time with superb results. I never said they do not do a very clean and professional type recovery as I know they do from experience.
My issue is with what un-learned onlookers see when they view a person with this type "shovel" in the local parks.Most folks are not going to approach you about the shovel but they will tell their friends and city officials what they witnessed and after getting repeated a few times the little "shovel" will be as big as a scoop shovel given human nature.
It is sad but the average squirrel does far more damage in a day than most detectorists do in a month:)
 
wpaxt said:
Ray,

Always good to read your posts.

Up until last year I had always used a hand digger in parks. Mainly a Lesche, although I had tried a Gator Digger for a bit. Also used a brass probe.

Then I ran into a buddy who was using one of the long handled shovels that you mention. I think it was a Ground Shark. He was cutting deep, clean plugs that went back into the ground seamlessly, which countered my misconception that these type of shovels tear up the turf. I have since added a long handled shovel to my tool set, more of a flat blade, and it cuts like a knife into the turf. You can cut a 3-sided plug down to 6" or so in seconds that flips right out. It's much more like cutting out the plug, as opposed to using a hand digger & sawing your way through the turf. For me, my plugs are much cleaner plus the digging takes much less of a toll on my hands.

I can also tell you that I have never had anyone come up to me and criticize for using my long handled shovel in the parks.

Just my take, you might give one a try some time.

Bill
Click to expand...


You are right you can use the long handled shovel iln such a manner and dig exceedingly neat plugs that are seamless, but that is not the contention it is what people percieve it to be rather than what it really is. Probably in many parks in my area I could use my long handled Predator shovel with no real problem but in many others especially in the more suburban areas it would be looked on in askance. So I do not do use it for that reason. Rightly or wrongly the future of our hobby being practiced in public places may well rest on the "perceptions" of non metal detecting people. It only takes one crank to protest to an official about it and all too often that official takes the path of least resistance and gives in to the "clanging cymbals" of a malcontent with their "righteous indignation".

1Corinthians 6:12
 
Ray, I have been preaching the idea of keeping a low profile while digging in parks, schools, fairgrounds, etc. by using handheld digging tools. I know for a fact that I can dig a pretty big and deep hole with a Lesche type digger. I know some of the shovels people carry aren't a whole lot bigger than my
Raptor digger, but they are still a shovel and perceived as a shovel by the powers to be. I will try to discourage any new detectorist to not use any type of shovel, but some people just don't get it. One guy had regular sized pointed shovel that he had shortened the handle. Said he had a bad back and would not bend down to dig a plug with hand digger. In the same breath, he said he had been kicked out of ball field complex because of this shovel. People like this just don't get it. If people don't start getting it, we will all be looking for places to dig. R.L.
 
Lack of respect for the public and landowners can hurt us all!
Great topic Ray.
 
I agree with you completely, I could just see the look I'd get in my area if I walked up to a front door to ask permission to hunt a private property, let alone in a local park with a long handled mini shovel. I think they are fine in the woods or fields. A friend I work with and I started hunting "curbs" about 25 to 28 years ago, the curbs belong to the city but since the land owners owned what was across the sidewalks they never wanted you to hunt curbs since they viewed them as part of there property. He (my Friend) had already hunted them with his brothers and we used a recovery method that he already used where a probe was used to locate the target and then you moved the tip past the edge and "pried" the slot open to "pop" the coin or small target out... Of course is was called "coin popping" and that is something we both still use in area's where we have to leave little or no sign we were there. I'm sure this method is no secret to many of you but it helped keep the land owners happy.
 
I think the problem really lies in the likelyhood that the "bad" holes left by others will be blamed on the person seen with the "shovel", whether they did a perfect job on their plug replacement or not. Perception is that the person with the shovel must be to blame for the bad holes.
Just my .02
 
I see guys using shovels in their videos in parks and I am totally shocked!!! If I tried that around here I'd get ran off!
 
A lot of places i even fill in the holes Squirrels have dug!
Don't want to get blamed for those holes either!

LabradorBob
 
Attached are pictures of my one and only digging tool I have used for the last 30 years. ( Not this exact one as I have worn several of them out in that time)

It is a Old Hickory kitchen knife, it has a 6" blade, the blade has to be annealed when new as they are very brittle and are easy to break, the blade is very thin and you can cut three 4" cuts and fold the plug back, recover your target, push the plug back in the ground, dust away the loss dirt and no one can tell you were even there. In all those years I have never had a problem with anyone complaining about how I leave the area I hunt in. I have hunted hundreds of parks, Private properties, and the grassy areas between the street and the side walks. Had a lady come out once when I was hunting a boulevard and said she didn't want any holes left. I asked her to let me finish my dig, when I was done I asked her if she could even see where I had dug. She turned around and went back in the house and gave me no more problems.

I like most of you have covered many other hobbyists holes, some so bad no amount of fixing would make the damage go away. Back in the 80's we had a guy in our area they nick named the BLADE. His digging tool was a machete, and he would cut a 1 foot square hole to recover what he found. The biggest problem with him is he wasn't particular about how he returned the plug to the hole. Most of the time he didn't even make a effort to get it back in the way it was cut. I know of three towns in our area that won't let anyone hunt their parks or any other city property and all three were due to him.

Every effort should be made to make our recoveries as invisible as possible. I am getting the pin pointing down pretty good on this E-Trac and for the most part can keep my recovery area in that 4" dig.
 
I always go in to public places as low a profile as possible !

I never have and never will use a shovel in a public area - it's bad press !

My digger and pinpointer are inside my jacket or pockets - dig very clean plugs with no mess - and for good public relations - I always pick up any garbage thats on the ground.
The local residents really appreciate it when you take the time to pick up a few beer or pop cans and take them with you.
I always try to leave the area cleaner then when I got there - I've also never been asked to leave a public site - so I guess it works !


Happy Hunting & Happy Holidays ! --- Mark
 
Unless you are wanting arrested and a felony record .This is a very serious issue and not to be taken lightly.I also used a knife for over 20 years with great results but times have changed for the worse I believe and I for one want to keep a low profile.If the police or any number of other folks see you using a knife in many public areas it will not end well.
I started this thread by not questioning the skill of the hole digger but rather what the general public perceives or assumes when they observe us recovering a target in common public areas.
 
Ray, Great post and subject. I have been using a long handle shovel since 1998 when I went on a Jimmy Sierra England trip. There I purchased two 30 inch long 3 1/2 inch wide blade shovels called The Black Ada. Upon returning home my friend decided to make a similar shovel but it is 38 inches long. I have been using that ever since. At age 70, it is so much easier on the wrists than a small digger or knife.
Also it is great for help getting back up from retrieving a target. I try to keep the shovel close to my leg and not to use exaggerated pushes with my foot while digging. I am able to cut a perfect plug and replace it so well, that I can not find it if I turn around after walking a couple of feet. However, I agree with you that it must look bad to someone passing as I am approached by a policeman about once a year because someone called to report me digging up the park. Every time the policeman has been satisfied that I was not doing any damage, actually complemented me and told me to continue. However again, I am going to try to go back to a small digger in those exposed public places as it is incumbent on all of us to improve the perception of people metal detecting or we will soon have no place to hunt.

Ohio Bud
 
Will check with the police where ever I hunt from now on as I always get permission before hunting. Will show them what I will be using to dig with. I'll let you know if I get any guff.

Tried using the digger that came with my E-Trac. Found it to be very cumbersome to use and it tore the ground up to bad, especially in dry conditions, and I'm very concerned about how I leave the area I hunt in. You want to loss your rights to enjoy this hobby just leave the area in worse condition then you found it. Since your concern is about public perception you better be paying attention to what they can see after you leave. I have as yet to ever hear of or see in the paper where anyone has been arrested or been asked to leave for using a knife to dig targets while metal detecting.
 
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